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squishia

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Aug 16 12 10:45 PM

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I just thought you'd like to know that there are others studying this stuff, and this is the state of the church currently because there are so few workers out there willing to learn about deliverance..he talks about subjects we have studied and some subjects we hadn't considered before.

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quasar

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Aug 17 12 6:02 AM

Thanks for your input squishy.  Though I have not had time to listen to the video, I appreciate your drawing my attention to it.  Though I asked you about the term "Deliverance" and what you meant by it, I did not mean I was out of touch with the current apostasy of the Church by any means.  I have spent the past 12 years participating on Christian website discussion boards, either as a moderator, administrator or founder of them, with over 40,000 threads and posts.

There are few if any recognized groups who claim to be Christian I have not dealt with in one way or another.  In addition to that, I have held memberships in the Presbyterian, Brethren, Methodist, Lutheran and Baptist churches.  Though still a member of the Baptist church, I no longer attend because I am non-denominational - I no longer believe in two or three of the doctrines and theology most of the mainline Christian churches do.

The major concern of what you believe has to do with what you do with Jesus.  That is the primary issue as to whether it is Christian or not.

Blessings,


Quasar

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servant

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Aug 17 12 6:32 AM

[media]
I just thought you'd like to know that there are others studying this stuff, and this is the state of the church currently because there are so few workers out there willing to learn about deliverance..he talks about subjects we have studied and some subjects we hadn't considered before.

-squishia

At first glance, this seems legitimate. Have heard of this guy before. This particular video it seems he is keeping with biblical precepts, but in other areas he probably strayed. Probably later in his ministry.

There is something about these mass deliverance meetings that bother me. They seem to do more harm than good in some cases. It all really comes down to who it is they are calling on even if the name of Jesus is used. That does not mean it is the power of the one true God. I believe there is a grace of God with such things, though. What bothers be about the mass group thing is that it is not quite the example that is found in scripture. I'll have to study it out more, but it seems that Jesus taught to the group or congregation, and delivered one on one individually. But there is texts that say he healed the sick in groups, so I may not be completely right about that. There is just something that strikes me as off about it.

One other thing, is that after the demonic spirits were bound, prayed against ect, there was not the standard of God prayed over them either. Nothing exists in a void, when something is kicked out, it has to be replaced with something.

It would be my personal preference to pray with people individually. But that is not to say that the Lord cannot work in the group methods, it is just not something that appeals to me. Mainly because then what then? After the deliverance, there should be some form of discipleship, learning more about the precepts of God so the application of those things can be continually prayed for. Learning to trust the Lord for the sanctification process etc. Just to deliver a person is one thing, but to train them well is quite another.

I realize the video is short and only deals with one part of ministry, and they cannot go into ever aspect of how those who are delivered are worked with beyond that, but is a problem I see in many of these ministries. Plus, it is a fact that there are those who are actually imparting those demons on the people rather than giving them the boot. It is all based in basic theology. Who God is and who Jesus is. Again, God's grace is amazing, but there is shortly coming a time where this doctrine of Jesus is God is going to bring the demonic hoard upon these congregations by the hand of those deliverance ministers. It has already started with the Toronto thing etc.

Anyway, will be out of town for a few days. Just be careful of what kind of deliverance ministry your following. It is better to open up the concordance and bible and search for those standards of God for yourself rather than follow others that may be far off track.

Pro 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

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servant

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#3 [url]

Aug 17 12 7:11 AM

One more thing before I go :)

In the mid 90's I was looking into these deliverance ministries a little bit. Kind of curious to see what they were about. Didn't get very far in my research of it when the Lord showed me that witchcraft was coming into the church. So, I withdrew from it completely, and decided the best way of knowing about any kind of deliverance was from the word of God itself, and by prayer. Through many hours of prayer and looking up words in the concordance etc, the Lord started to show me that everything was right within those biblical texts.

Now at the time, I was using the NIV version. In the last few years, as I switched to the KJV there has been a whole lot more that the Lord has shown and revealed from His word.

So, if there is one piece of advice I could give it is...don't follow what men think it true. Get busy in the word and prayer for yourself. Following another ministry as if they have all the answers will leave you in a bad place, just like following any other religion will end you up in a bad place. Not saying that those ministries do not have their own place and work in the Body of Christ, but our focus and trust should always be on the Lord.

Ok, now this time I'm really leaving. XD

Pro 17:22 A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

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quasar

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#4 [url]

Aug 17 12 8:54 AM


I realize the video is short and only deals with one part of ministry, and they cannot go into ever aspect of how those who are delivered are worked with beyond that, but is a problem I see in many of these ministries. Plus, it is a fact that there are those who are actually imparting those demons on the people rather than giving them the boot. It is all based in basic theology. Who God is and who Jesus is. Again, God's grace is amazing, but there is shortly coming a time where this doctrine of Jesus is God is going to bring the demonic hoard upon these congregations by the hand of those deliverance ministers. It has already started with the Toronto thing etc.

-=servant



The above remark took me by surprise as I did not understand you do not believe Jesus is literally God the Son.  I'm sure you recognize Him to be the Son of God.  The Bible tells us God, who is the Holy Spirit, according to the Scriptures, PRODUCED Jesus by the virgin Mary, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.  To simplify the facts, Jesus has the DNA of both God and of Mary and there is no way He cannot be God the Son, as Jn.1:1 stated: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."  In addition, God stated through the prophet in Isa.7:14, "...The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him, Immanuel [Which means 'God with us']."  God also called His Son God, in Ps.45:6-7 and Lord, in Ps.110:1.  Both Thomas and Paul called Jesus God in Jn.20:28 and in Titus 2:13.

Additional facts are:  Jesus is the Mediator between God and men according to 1 Tim.2:5, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."  As well as, "but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom He made the Universe."  Heb.1:2. 

And, "Then the end will come when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father AFTER HE HAS DESTROYED ALL DOMINION, AUTHORITY AND POWER.  FOR HE MUST REIGN UNTIL HE HAS PUT ALL HIS ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET.  Now when it says "everything" has been put under Him, it is clear that this does not include God Himself, WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST.  When He has done this, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him WHO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER HIM , so that God may be all in all."  1 Cor.15:24-28.

Confirming Mt.28:18, "...All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

"...No one comes to the Father except through me."  Jn.14:6.

The bottom line to the above:  NO ONE DRIVES OUT DEMONS EXCEPT YAHSHUA, OR BY A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN IN HIS NAME.  [Yahshua is the Hebrew, and the proper name of whom we have all been given to call Jesus].

I hope this is helpful.


Quasar 



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squishia

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Aug 17 12 9:30 AM


At first glance, this seems legitimate. Have heard of this guy before. This particular video it seems he is keeping with biblical precepts, but in other areas he probably strayed. Probably later in his ministry.
There is something about these mass deliverance meetings that bother me. They seem to do more harm than good in some cases. It all really comes down to who it is they are calling on even if the name of Jesus is used. That does not mean it is the power of the one true God. I believe there is a grace of God with such things, though. What bothers be about the mass group thing is that it is not quite the example that is found in scripture. I'll have to study it out more, but it seems that Jesus taught to the group or congregation, and delivered one on one individually. But there is texts that say he healed the sick in groups, so I may not be completely right about that. There is just something that strikes me as off about it.
One other thing, is that after the demonic spirits were bound, prayed against ect, there was not the standard of God prayed over them either. Nothing exists in a void, when something is kicked out, it has to be replaced with something.
It would be my personal preference to pray with people individually. But that is not to say that the Lord cannot work in the group methods, it is just not something that appeals to me. Mainly because then what then? After the deliverance, there should be some form of discipleship, learning more about the precepts of God so the application of those things can be continually prayed for. Learning to trust the Lord for the sanctification process etc. Just to deliver a person is one thing, but to train them well is quite another.
I realize the video is short and only deals with one part of ministry, and they cannot go into ever aspect of how those who are delivered are worked with beyond that, but is a problem I see in many of these ministries. Plus, it is a fact that there are those who are actually imparting those demons on the people rather than giving them the boot. It is all based in basic theology. Who God is and who Jesus is. Again, God's grace is amazing, but there is shortly coming a time where this doctrine of Jesus is God is going to bring the demonic hoard upon these congregations by the hand of those deliverance ministers. It has already started with the Toronto thing etc.
Anyway, will be out of town for a few days. Just be careful of what kind of deliverance ministry your following. It is better to open up the concordance and bible and search for those standards of God for yourself rather than follow others that may be far off track.

-servant

I agree, he never  fulled the spiritual void, I noticed some errors too, but if it is legitimate it's quite an example as to where the church stands right now..the group of individuals who were delivered are a small church in the USA, they posted the video as well as many others of public speakers they asked to give them a sermon. They are all studying deliverance without any discipleship to any particular person. I haven't come across a Church in the US who practices deliverance exclusively, so I thought you might be interested.
http://www.youtube.com/user/HegewischBaptist

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squishia

Junior Member

Posts: 46

#6 [url]

Aug 17 12 9:31 AM

One more thing before I go :)
In the mid 90's I was looking into these deliverance ministries a little bit. Kind of curious to see what they were about. Didn't get very far in my research of it when the Lord showed me that witchcraft was coming into the church. So, I withdrew from it completely, and decided the best way of knowing about any kind of deliverance was from the word of God itself, and by prayer. Through many hours of prayer and looking up words in the concordance etc, the Lord started to show me that everything was right within those biblical texts.
Now at the time, I was using the NIV version. In the last few years, as I switched to the KJV there has been a whole lot more that the Lord has shown and revealed from His word.
So, if there is one piece of advice I could give it is...don't follow what men think it true. Get busy in the word and prayer for yourself. Following another ministry as if they have all the answers will leave you in a bad place, just like following any other religion will end you up in a bad place. Not saying that those ministries do not have their own place and work in the Body of Christ, but our focus and trust should always be on the Lord.
Ok, now this time I'm really leaving. XD

-servant


yeah I guess you're right..

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quasar

Seasoned Member

Posts: 3,360

#7 [url]

Aug 17 12 6:29 PM


I just thought you'd like to know that there are others studying this stuff, and this is the state of the church currently because there are so few workers out there willing to learn about deliverance..he talks about subjects we have studied and some subjects we hadn't considered before.

=squishy



In the circles you have been busy with, it may seem to you, is the state of the church currently, squishy.  But that is only the tip of the iceberg.  The following are the many directions the church is going currently plus many others.

Mormonism; Trinitarianism; Arianism; Gnosticism; Monarchianism; Sabelianism; Montanism; Marcionism; Modalism; Manichaeism; Patripassionism; Docetism; Apollinarianism; Ebionism; Eutychianism; Nestorianism;  Monophysitism; Preterism; Supersessionism; Replacement theology; Amillennialism; Post Millennialism; Historic Premillennialism; Unitarianism; Covenant theology; New Covenant theology; Dominion theology; Kingdom Now Theology; Oneness theology; Jehovah's Witnesses; Seventh Day Adventists; United Pentecostal; Apostolic Pentecostal and many others too numerous to list.

For a very lively up-to-date revelation of the diversity of belief systems in action, go to the following site and do a careful evaluation of what else is going on in the Christian society you are not aware of:


http://forums.carm.org/vbb/forum.php



Quasar


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