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quasar

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May 17 10 4:26 AM

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Hi friends,

The most obvious reason why the doctrine of the Trinity is false is found in Mt.28:19 where we read in our present day Bibles, the following:  "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."  Obviously altered by unscrupulous scribes obsessed with belief in the doctrine of the Trinity. In addition to 1 Jn.5:7, which was a late Latin insert around the 11th or 12th centuries that never appeared in any of the earlier, Greek manuscripts.  When, in fact, God is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures, as documented below.  The term "Father," is the very same title all men receive when they have produced children of their own, as the Holy Spirit did when He produced the incarnate Jesus by the virgin Mary in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35.  Or, in the same manner, the Father is the Holy Spirit.

Trinitarians are attempting to make God, who is the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus, two persons, when in fact He is but one person.  Which is like saying my father, who is John, are two persons!  Yet, when it comes to the Son, which is nothing more than Jesus title, they don't add Jesus to their formula of "Father, Son, Holy Spirit, adding Jesus with Son, and have a quadruple Godhead instead of a Trinity!  The fact of the matter is, the Scriptures document our Godhead to be the Father, who is God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus, the Son of God, as documented below. 

1. What is God? He is Spirit, according to Jesus, in Jn.4:24 and Paul, in 2 Cor.3:17-18. That no one has ever seen Him, because He is invisible, according to Jn.1:18; Rom.1:20; Col.1:15; 1 Tim.1:17; Heb.11:27 and in 1 Jn,4:12 [Both Moses and Abraham saw the pre-incarnate Jesus, not God, the invisible Holy Spirit].

2. God, who is Spirit according to the Scriptures, is also Holy, according to Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Ps.99:3; Ps.99:5 and 1 Pet.1:15-16. Therefore, according to the Scriptures, there is no option to the fact, God is the Holy Spirit!

3. There was only one God throughout the entire OT according to Isa.43:10 and 44:6.  Which rules out Jesus being co-eternal or co-equal with God, the Holy Spirit. The Scriptural description of the origin of the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus is addressed below.  It can be described as Jesus auto-biography, written by king Solomon as he was carried along by the Holy Spirit.

4. The origin of the pre-incarnate Jesus, did not become the only begotten Son of God, until much later, in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:32, 35, as found in Pr.8:22-36, recorded below:  Confirming  Ps.2:7; Ps.45:6-7; Ps.110:1 and Isa.7:14.   Repeated when fulfilled in: Mt.1:23; Mt.22:44; Heb.1:5, 8-9.

"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24] NIV

when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world." [Vs 24-26]  NIV

I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]  NIV 

when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]  NIV 

rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind.  Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]  NIV

Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36]  NIV
 
That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3
 
From the above, the Word of God clearly reveals the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ was created [When the Holy Spirit produced the incarnate human Jesus by the virgin Mary in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35, He became the Son of God and literally, God the Son, when He received His deity - see below] and is therefore not co-eternal or co-equal with the Spirit of God, who is the Father, as Jesus stated clearly in Jn.14:28 and Jn.17:3.. The same passage of Scripture also clearly reveals there are two 'personages' involved, not just one. God, whom the Scriptures reveal is the Holy Spirit, and the pre-incarnate Spirit of Jesus Christ.

In the KJV, is another example of the pre-incarnate Spirit of Jesus being created, comes from their translation of Pr.8:22, which reads as follows: "The Lord POSSESSED me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old." In a review of Gen.14:19 and 22, the term POSSESS in both verses means CREATOR, i.e., that God CREATED the heavens and the earth, as well as the pre-incarnated Spirit of Jesus Christ, confirming Col.1:15 NIV.

To further reinforce the Pr.8:22-36 passage, it can also be seen in Col.1:15, that Jesus is/was the FIRSTBORN over all creation. And in vs 18, is written that He was/is the FIRSTBORN from the dead. Let it be crystal clear, the term, 'FIRSTBORN' means exactly the same in both verses! It means FIRSTBORN, as a firstborn child in a family of multiple children, or if only one, as in Pr.8:22, He was brought forth as the first of YHWH's works, before anything else was created, before the world began.  

5. "when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day," [Vs 29-30]  Confirming: Gen.1:26; Gen.11:7; Jn.1:1-3; Col.1:16 and in Heb.1:2.

6. The Holy Spirit, who is our One and Only God [Isa.43:10 and 44:6], not only stated He was the Father of Israel , in Dt.32:6, but also prophecied He was going to be the Father of a Son, in Ps.2:7; 2 Sam.7:14; 1 Chr.17:13 and in Ps.2:7. Which was fulfilled in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35 . Therefore, there is no option to the Scriptural fact: God, the Holy Spirit was/is the Father of Jesus Christ. And "provided" a body for the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus, by the virgin Mary, confirming Jn.1:14 and Heb.10:5.

7. The pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus then became the human Jesus according to Jn.1:14; the incarnate Son of God in Lk.1:32, 35 and received His name, Jesus, in Lk.1:31. Literally, becoming God the Son, fulfilling the prophecy of the Holy Spirit, in Ps.45:6-7, 110:1 and Isa.7:14. Empowered to give/baptize with the Holy Spirit, according to Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16; Jn.1:33 and Acts 2:1-3. To perform 36 miracles, of raising some from the dead, healing people with leprosy and other terminal illnesses as well as the blind and the deaf, which no normal human being could ever do.

See the following for the Scriptural description of God:
 
http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2010/01/23/the-biblical-description-of-god--4/


See the following for:  "Why is Matthew 28:19 and 1 John 5:7 false ?"

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/05/17/authenticity-of-mt2819-and-1-jn57-8-reviewed/#post1


See the following for the origins and development of the trinity:

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/doctrine/the%20origin%20of%20the%20trinity.htm

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2009/12/11/the-origin-of-the-doctrine-of-the-trinity-from-pag/  

Blessings,


Quasar




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beloved

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Jan 11 11 3:04 PM

My dear brother in Christ, I hope you are well and having a happy New Year. All is well here except for 7-1/2 inches of snow that will not melt and a 40 degree driveway that is keeping us housebound! HURRAH. Except for missing Church I am well stocked on groceries, all meds bought before storm hit and firewood stacked up high in case ice gets the electric lines. I even have a rack to put in the fireplace and coffee pot and pans to cook over a fireplace.  I wasn't a boy scout but girl Scouts knew to be prepared too!.

Thank you for the above articles. I am printing this and also the one you have in Bible Study. I think I need to print out all Scripture from them, pray and study, study, study. This is one area that I think is so important and I still have not had an answer from the Lord (or maybe my stubborn heart will not listen) as to whether the Holy Spirit is a person of the Trinity or the Spirit of God. It keeps coming back to me that there is God the Father and God the Son and that is why Trinitarians argue there is God the Holy Spirit. Yet, there are verses of Scripture that make me doubt that. # 6 of the above post spells that out though. Still, I wonder why the Holy Spirit is called a helper and referred to as He by Christ at times. sigh.

Put me on your prayer list please Quasar and pray that my eyes will be opened to understand and my gift will be discernment.

This site is a blessing for me.


Romans 1:17, For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written:"The righteous will live by faith."

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quasar

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Jan 11 11 10:39 PM

My dear sister in Christ, beloved, it is always my delight to hear from you and have you post your thoughts with us.  As it is so late [1:40 A.M.] I must close shop for tonight and get back with you on this in the morning.  Please forgive me for the delay and know you are in my prayers.

God bless,


Quasar 

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quasar

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Jan 12 11 6:21 AM

[SCROLL TO THE TOP] 

Originally posted by Beloved:
My dear brother in Christ, I hope you are well and having a happy New Year. All is well here except for 7-1/2 inches of snow that will not melt and a 40 degree driveway that is keeping us housebound! HURRAH. Except for missing Church I am well stocked on groceries, all meds bought before storm hit and firewood stacked up high in case ice gets the electric lines. I even have a rack to put in the fireplace and coffee pot and pans to cook over a fireplace.  I wasn't a boy scout but girl Scouts knew to be prepared too!.

Thank you for the above articles. I am printing this and also the one you have in Bible Study. I think I need to print out all Scripture from them, pray and study, study, study. This is one area that I think is so important and I still have not had an answer from the Lord (or maybe my stubborn heart will not listen) as to whether the Holy Spirit is a person of the Trinity or the Spirit of God. It keeps coming back to me that there is God the Father and God the Son and that is why Trinitarians argue there is God the Holy Spirit. Yet, there are verses of Scripture that make me doubt that. # 6 of the above post spells that out though. Still, I wonder why the Holy Spirit is called a helper and referred to as He by Christ at times. sigh.

Put me on your prayer list please Quasar and pray that my eyes will be opened to understand and my gift will be discernment.

This site is a blessing for me.

-beloved






Q: My dear Beloved, I have been blessed with good health, thank you and pray that you are the same, in spite of a heart condition.  Yes, the snow condition is a major problem in many places in this awful winter.  Seems you live in GA where reports have come in from there revealing the record breaking events.  We have had much snow here in KY as well, but only piled as high as in GA, in the SE part of the state.  As you pointed out, the primary problem is getting out in your car to go to the doctor or the store and pharmacy, to say nothing od Church.  Here in Lexington, have been a good one, as you have been very proficient in your planning! angel most of them have had to close due to the treacherous conditions.  I must say, if you had been a girl scout, you would
Now about the Scriptural description of God and the origin of the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus.  As it is a precise examination of the Scriptures, it is by necessity rather lengthy as well.  I will post the links for you to find all that you need to clearly reveal to you there is no such thing as a triune Godhead.

My OP on this thread is a sound outline as to the Scriptural facts that bear out who and what God is, however.  The key to the Trinity doctrine being false is in the fact that the Scriptures reveal that God is the Holy Spirit as recorded in:  Ln.4:24; 2 Cor.3:17-18; Lev.11:44-45 and 1 Pet.1:15-16.  That He fulfilled His prophecies of being a Father in: 2 Sam.14:7; 1 Chr.17:13 and Ps.2:7 and fulfilled them in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35.  Therefore, God is the Holy Spirit as well as the Father.  The term Father is nothing more than the very same title all men receive when they produce children of their own.  Which reveals the gross error of the trinitarian doctrine in which they declare: Father, Son and Holy Spirit as the three persons, who constitute one God.  When the Scriptures declare God to be the Holy Spirit, who is the Father, one and the same person. 

The other major factor being in Jesus being a completely separate entity than that of the Father, according to many places in the Scriptures, such as: The many places where God raised Jesus from the dead, as in Rom.10:9.  Also in every epistle in the Bible, the apostles greet both the Father as well as Jesus, but never the Holy Spirit, because they all recognized God as the Holy Spirit, as the Father of Jesus.

1. http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2011/12/10/whowhat-is-god-and-origin-of-the-pre-incarnate-jes-2/#post1

The following is a view of Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7, in which the above post pertaining to the Scriptural description of who/what is God/Father/Son/Holy Spirit reveals the unscrupulous adding on to and inserting of scripture to the original ms by scribes is fully exposed.

2. http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/2009/12/29/authenticity-of-mt2819-1-jn57-questioned-/#post1

Hope this fully explains questions you have had pertaining to the description of God/Father/Son/Holy Spirit vs the Doctrine of the Trinity.


God bless,


Quasar 






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Jadeth30

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May 4 14 8:13 AM


You said:  . There was only one God throughout the entire OT according to Isa.43:10 and 44:6.  Which rules out Jesus being co-eternal or co-equal with God, the Holy Spirit. The Scriptural description of the origin of the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus is addressed below.  It can be described as Jesus auto-biography, written by king Solomon as he was carried along by the Holy Spirit.

=================
I will have to disagree with you on this one, brother. How about Genesis, where "God said let us make man in our image"

multiple parts, one God.

----------

Also there is this:


I John 5:7
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

------------

Jesus called Himself God:


John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

---------------



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Last Edited By: Jadeth30 May 4 14 8:19 AM. Edited 1 time.

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Jadeth30

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May 4 14 8:18 AM

Now I'm a bit confused as to what you are saying. Apologies. Are you saying you DO believe in God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit, the three-in-one?



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Jadeth30

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May 4 14 8:24 AM

John 1:1 tells us the Word (Jesus) is also God. (Verse 14 identifying Him as Jesus).

-----------

Trinity may be something that cannot easily be understood. But remember, many things of God are not understood, but taken by Faith.



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Jadeth30

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May 4 14 8:33 AM

apologies for multiple posts back to back, but things keep coming to mind:

John 20:27-29
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

-------------------

Jesus Identified Himself as being equal with the Father:

Phil 2:6 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

John 10:

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


John 14:
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.



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quasar

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May 4 14 9:41 AM

Greetings Nathan,

Thank you for all your new contributions today, I appreciate your interest. I will get back with you on this particular issue you have raised a number of questions and challenges to, as soon as time permits me to do so.  Meanwhile, you might review the "The Biblical Description of God," at the following, which will answer a number issues you raised.  When you have reviewed those and provided your feedback about it, I will proceed with those of yours:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/3265768/The-Biblical-Description-of-God#.U2Z76vldW1I


Quasar  

Last Edited By: quasar May 31 14 7:56 PM. Edited 2 times.

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